SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I can relate in many ways to your story. My husband's betrayal was online rather than in person and was not just one person. However there are similarities in that my husband kept putting himself in "dangerous " positions over and over. Like your husband mine walked away from offers sometimes and other times gave in to temptation. I came to the conclusion, as you seem to have, that it wasn't about emotions towards her, he acted inappropriately because he wanted to and his behaviour was a result of his poor boundaries.

I can relate to how you are feeling, and am feeling many of the same things and feel the same quandry.

I am interested in seeing your list of boundaries for your husband.

My husband and have talked about a few things such as no more social media and no one on one interactions with women other than his clients (I'm not worried about him crossing that line) either online/text or in person. But I feel like I should make some things clear that I THINK should be obvious but don't always seem to be for him. For example after I found out he had met with an online FB friend for coffee a number of times without telling me and we had a long conversation about how it was inappropriate to hide it from me and because we have had this issue before i thought he should have known that he should not meet with or talk with women one on one (except in clear business settings) because he has a habit of leaving himself open and not realizing women might take his friendliness for interesting something more (it has happened before and he was clueless) . But i found the next day after our covnersation that he had sent a response to her in their friendly FB direct message conversation (nothing sexual or emotional- just friendly banter. ) he just didn't get that any contact with women is DAnGEROUS for him as he can get drawn in without realizing it. No chatting online with woman means no contact with any women, not just the obvious ones that are obviously looking to trap him.
Anyway, all this to say it's obvious I need to spell things out clearly not just assume he knows what I am thinking or that some things are obviously innapropriate. We've done that before. If you could post your boundaries so i can get an idea, that would be great..

Sorry I am not much help to you ads I am in about the same boat as you and haven't figured it all out yet.

Hi Lizzie,

I believe my husband blurred his boundaries because ‘everyone did it’ but I do not for one second believe he did not know what he was doing, he knew it was wrong but he enjoyed the attention so lied to himself to pacify the guilt.
I do not on the other hand believe that he wanted anything other than the attention though, I believe that he gave in to her in moments of weakness, otherwise in a 2 yr 4 month period there would have been a lot more than 8 kisses.

IMO Lizzie your husband needs to understand what he is doing is wrong and it upsets you, he either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care, have you been to couples counselling/therapy?, he probably has the same mentality as my H first did ‘I didn’t have PIV so I didn’t cheat’.

Boundaries for Rebuilding Trust and Safety

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1. Absolute Honesty

There will be no lies, no omissions, and no half-truths — ever again. We speak the truth, even when it’s uncomfortable or painful. Complete honesty is the foundation of our healing.
Violation = Divorce.

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2. No Female Friendships or Over-Familiarity

There will be no female friends, no private joking, no playful banter, no emotional closeness, and no need to be liked by women outside of this marriage. If you feel the desire to connect with another woman in a way you wouldn’t in front of me, you need to be single.
Professional communication must remain brief, polite, and task-based — nothing more.
Violation = Divorce.

⸻

3. Zero Contact with Her

There will be no communication, eye contact, verbal acknowledgment, body language, or any type of exchange with her — not even in a professional context. If she attempts contact directly or indirectly, you will stonewall her completely and inform me immediately.
Violation = Divorce.

⸻

4. No Women in Our Car — Ever

Under no circumstances is any woman allowed in our car. Not for emergencies, not for convenience — no exceptions.
Violation = Divorce.

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5. No Helping Women with Car Repairs

You will not offer, volunteer, or be involved in any mechanical help or car-related favors for women — including coworkers or managers. Women have their own resources. There is no need for your involvement.
Violation = Divorce.

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6. No One-on-One Outings with Cousin xxxxx

You may maintain contact with cousin xxxxx,but you may never go anywhere with him alone. He has shown a lack of respect for our marriage and its boundaries. He is not a friend to our relationship, and I don’t want him involved in our family in any meaningful way.
Violation = Divorce.

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7. Open Emotional Communication

We will check in weekly and talk openly about anything that’s bothering us and also about what we’re enjoying. Nothing gets brushed under the carpet. We must address things before they become resentment.

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8. No People-Pleasing

You must stop trying to please others at your own or our relationship’s expense. People-pleasing means:
•Avoiding saying "no" to others even when you should
•Putting their comfort above our boundaries
•Trying to be liked by sacrificing your integrity
You are not responsible for how others feel — only how you act. Your emotional loyalty belongs at home.

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9. No Conflict Avoidance with Others

You must learn to stand your ground and protect your own boundaries, even when it’s uncomfortable. Conflict avoidance allowed her to push past your boundaries, That cannot happen again. Conflict is not danger — it’s an opportunity for clarity.

⸻

10. No Lusting Over Women Online

I understand that men look, but my self-esteem has been deeply damaged. I don’t want you engaging with or watching half-dressed women on TikTok, Instagram, or other platforms.
If you don’t engage but your algorithm still shows it, you must take steps to eliminate it.
This makes me feel unwanted, compared, and like you’re shopping for something better.

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11. Date Time — Just Us

We will regularly spend quality time together, whether that’s going on a drive to our spot, having a picnic, or taking a day out. This is a non-negotiable space for connection, laughter, and emotional intimacy.

⸻

12. Full Emotional Openness & Vulnerability

This is my personal appeal to your heart: I need to know all of you — not just your thoughts from today but your emotions from the past too. I want you to be open and raw and vulnerable.
Share with me your feelings, your childhood pain, your regrets — bear your soul to me.
Let me be the one person in this world who gets to see every side of you. No more hiding, no more shame. You are safe with me if you are honest.

Thanks for sharing this Bruce...it is helpful for me see to put together a list of my own so things are crystal clear rather than me thinking he will avoid the things that are obvious to me but apparently not as obvious to him that they led to. Slippery slope. I mean I think he gets it this time but I thought that before...

IMO Lizzie your husband needs to understand what he is doing is wrong and it upsets you, he either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care, have you been to couples counselling/therapy?, he probably has the same mentality as my H first did ‘I didn’t have PIV so I didn’t cheat’.

He does understand the obvious things, but I had to point out that harmless chatting even when non sexual and non emotional is a no go because if his pattern.

And yes he does know and understand that all of it is cheating and inappropriate. Even the times he refused to engage he now understands how innapropriate and hurtful it is for him to say " yes it would be great to see you naked but I'm married so the conversation is over." No need to be "polite."

I mean I get it that some people think we should be happy our spouses stopped themselves from going further but it is still painful amd hurtful that they allowed themselves in that situation in the first place.

We are not doing couples therapy for a variety of reasons. But this time around he is doing the work. I thought he did the last time but now I can see the difference. Of me telling him what to do rather than him doing it. He is reading and understanding all the resources I am giving him. We have been working through several couples therapy workbooks. The t.v. is mostly off, he's off social media and we spend much of our regained time enjoying each other's company.I have left it up to him if he does IC or not. I am ok if he doesnt.

The biggest change is our communication . He is now engaged a la your #12. After almost 40 years of being together he has finally figured out being 100% emotionally open to me is a good thing. And in many ways, as painful as it still is things are better than ever as we were heading towards that before the latest Dday and this has just given him more incentive to be more communicative and take our relationship to a deeper level. He seems truly happy amd at peace in a way I haven't seen in him before.

Thanks for sharing, Bruce, it gives me much food for thought!

Lizzie,
you are very welcome I’m glad it helps, take your time with your boundaries and really think what you need, it took me weeks to finalise them.

It’s weird isn’t it?, how you get someone completely different, emotionally available, open, speaking like they’ve never before, they’re finally free but you took the bullet, like who is this man?, so surreal.

Good luck with your boundaries Lizzie.

I have a couple of concerns about your list, but it's a great start.

First, what do you think of changing 'violation: D' to 'violations: TDB (To Be determined) up to and including D'? Will you D him, for example, if he drives a woman to the ER when the hospital says all ambulances are in service, so they can't offer and ETA? Will you D him if some of the people he works with go out to lunch, the car breaks down, and he fixes it?

Giving yourself a range of consequences can protect you - I'm not trying to protect him.

*****

More important, how will you know if he complies with or violates boundaries 7-12? Boundaries are much more workable when they are observable. You've definitely identified behaviors that can lead to unhealthy relationships. I just don't know how you'll know if he does one or more of them.

Some examples: I drafted something like, 'W will arrange dates.' That was quickly changed to 'W will arrange dates at least once a week.'

One of my requirements was 'W will initiate sex'. We went through hysterical bonding. One of us touched another, and some minutes later we'd be in bed with absolutely no ability to remember which/whose touch switched from one thing (usually support) to desire.

Another requirement was NC. Alas, W & ow had a business relationship. Contact was required by law until certain requirements were met. IOW, I had to wait for a bit until NC could be implemented. Also, ow continued to call and write (USPS) my W. My choice was not to penalize my W for actions she could not control.

*****

One of my requirements for R was that may address 7-12 is:

- W will do IC with a goal of changing from cheater to good partner. (She could have other goals, too, but she had to have and work to achieve that one.)
- Her IC was our MC, so W signed a release allowed MC/IC to bring anything from an IC session into an MC session.
- W signed a release that allowed her therapist to talk with me about her progress.
Her IC added that she (IC) would call me if W revealed another A.

What do you think about adding something like 'Another IC goal must be ;change from co-depenent to authentic''?

My W had 7 & 12 as her requirements for me. We are still working on those. We we started on those in 1966. My guess is you won't see immediate improvements....

I was never co-dependent (people-pleasing, conflict avoidance, etc.) except at work(!), so that made our lives easier. W is co-d, which is a pain but manageable enough for me. It looks like boundary #5 addresses that to some extent. As I say, I'd give you more latitude on the consequences, but I see fixing someone's car as dangerous for a co-d person.

I don't understand your MC's objection to #5. IMO, a manager who asks an employee to fix their car needs better boundaries herself. How can a manager be objective when an employee is doing them a favor outside of the employee's normal business duties?

*****

A comment on #8: I suggest figuring out what makes you believe your H desires you and no one else, and ask for those behaviors.

Also, my reco is to work on you. Learn about your attractiveness and accept it. Turn your H's desire for you into self talk that says you are attractive to him because you are attractive. You don't understand why he finds you attractive - just that he does because you're attractive.

Being attractive is much more than looks. My W & I are 80 years old. I'm clinically obese and bald and short. She's wrinkled and sagging, and she's in lousy emotional shape. And yet we desire each other. This is one area where we have to believe our friends. Accept that they're our friends because they want to be. Therefore we can attract friends. Accept that you're attractive because your H is attracted to you, and maybe dump him if he isn't.

One way I worded my requirements was that I wanted my W to love me, be in love with me, and commit (really, this time) to monogamy. I knew she loved me from the way she took care of me and our apartment. I could believe her commitment to monogamy after we talked it out. But the only way I decided if she was in love with me was sex, and it's easy to fake sexual interest.

I think she convinced me with her consistency. I suspect I was very skeptical of her interest for a year, but she never stopped showing desire. Eventually I believed her.

Maybe that's a a lot of words that mean you have to be open to be loved and desired to know that you're loved and desired.

*****

I've shared what worked for me. I am only one variation in the Betrayed Spouse population, not a model.

Got a Covid booster yesterday, so I may be ...um... more unique than usual.

Thanks for the opportunity to address attractiveness. Too many BSes think they're not attractive when they ARE, and too many BSes think they're old and used up when they're NOT.

Sisoon,

Thank you for your advice, yes I will D him on the boundaries that have consequences.
I did tell him that maybe in the future I may relax these but for now those are in stone.

My H is not an ambulance, a roadside recovery or a taxi.

He doesn’t need to nor have to have any contact with OW at work, they’re on different shifts but he could see her sometimes if she’s in the office when his shift starts. He’s seen her 3 times since DD which was almost 6 months ago and he did tell me. One thing I absolutely hated though was around a month ago she asked a supervisor if he had a car battery charger, he said no but (my h) has one, she said ‘oh he doesn’t talk to me anymore’, this prompted the supervisor to approach my H when he started his shift and said ‘oh why don’t you talk to xxx?’ My husband said oh I don’t know what she’s talking about I talk to everybody.
MC said that maybe she was just doing what I’d told her because when I last spoke to her I told OW that my H would be keeping himself to himself and she will do the same. I didn’t like it though she should have kept her mouth shut!.
My H is currently looking for a new job.

I don’t have any consequences to the other boundaries because those are things I want him to work on they’re not going to result in anything other than a conversation etc.

Right now I feel as attractive as a potato, I don’t honestly know what my husband is attracted to me for, never really asked, I don’t know if I dare, he’s about as intelligent as a potato when it comes to answering questions like this.

We don’t have any boundaries with phones, computers etc because those have always been open for both to see everything anyway.

One more thing I must add is that- my H has always had the no car boundary for me that is why I see every lift he gave her as a stab in the back!, if I’d have been giving men lifts home he’d lose his damn mind.

1
2
4
5 all apply to me too, always have done.

Right now I feel as attractive as a potato, I don’t honestly know what my husband is attracted to me for, never really asked, I don’t know if I dare, he’s about as intelligent as a potato when it comes to answering questions like this. laugh

I relate so so much to this Bruce.....

In our 40 years of being together I can count on one hand the times he has complimented on my looks unless I ask him if I look ok. then I get, "yeah looks good." (Kinda like the "love ya too" I got when I would tell him every night before bed that I loved him.) After long discussions of how hurtful it was to never receive compliments from him to then read his compliments to random women in FB chats or comments and likes on social media of "Gorgeous," "you look very fit and attractive," "great dress" "great photo" "how are you still single?" "You're pretty" my self-esteem which has been very low was absolutely crushed.

Now I get compliments and told he is attracted to me almost every day and "I love you" about 20 times a day. He swears he never stopped loving me. I believe the "I love yous, but anything about me being attractive or desireable - not so much. All I hear when in my head when he says these things, is "oh yeah, now when you thought you would lose me. "Oh yeah now when I have lost so much weight." "Oh yeah now that I am no longer disabled... " I have told him I don't think I would ever believe it.

Such a mind f**k these husbands of ours have put us through.