SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Back again,
Husband had 1 night stand in 2016 while I was pregnant with our 2nd and last child. I caught him, he admitted and cut ties immediately. Ended up reconciling in what I believed was the right way to recovery. Joint professional counseling, church counseling, retreats, books etc. A few days ago, 10 years post affair #1, I asked to see his phone because of red flags I’d been noticing and my gut feeling. He didn’t allow it at first but then said ok. Discovered text messages with female, he text things like I miss you a lot, I wish I was with you etc. As of now he’s claiming it’s a texting relationship with a female he met at the gym. So far no admission to sex or face to face meeting, since that gym closed last summer. But admitted to sexting and wanting to have sex with her but it hadnt come to fulfillment.
I am currently disappointed, probably some shock, not surprised though and still don’t believe I’m getting full story. I don’t feel distraught like the first affair. I didn’t cry much, all I could think of was our 2 kids (under 13years) and how a separation/divorce will affect them. He’s apologizing and asking for forgiveness…etc. I honestly feel like he’s not my husband and I’m seeing him like a person who just lost everything like a loser. Again, these last few days, I haven’t thought about him, his feelings or even cared if he’s still talking to her. I’m thinking about how I can protect my kids. I’m sure my feelings will be changing as I process or he may release more info on this affair, but I don’t care. I just feel like I don’t want him anymore. I’m just taking my time to think as I am a overthinker! Thanks for reading

I’m so sorry you found this out. But so glad you came back to us.. and I think taking your time and deciding the next steps is the right approach. Feel free to read in the separation divorce for him to see how others have done this if that’s one of the options you’re considering.

So sorry he wasn’t able to truly change

I’m sorry this has reappeared and you are now facing the issue with an inability to resolve the problem. Let’s assume that Reconciliation is not an option b/c you no longer trust him.

What is your plan? See an attorney or mediator?

Give it time to gather an exit strategy?

Separate for now and plan for D?

I hope you at least get some counseling for yourself.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:47 AM, Tuesday, January 27th]

Chica,

See a lawyer right away, both to learn how a divorce might play out for you and what steps you should take to protect yourself financially.

Best wishes.

Chica, I’m so sorry to see you here again. Your last post was almost a year ago regarding the texting/trash talking about your marriage to a female coworker.

He has no boundaries and even seemingly less respect for you and the marriage.

Ducks in a row and lawyer…

Wishing you the best.

One way to possibly find out the truth is to tell him to write down a complete timeline of his interaction with her with no detail left out no matter how small

If/ when he does this ask him is this everything and if he says yes then tell him you want him to take a polygraph test. If he immediately says okay then there's a good chance he's being honest but if he stalls or asks why or uses any other delay tactic then you can probably assume he did not write down everything

The best advice I ever received was from a private investigator I worked for a long time ago. He told me kid, always follow your gut. If something feels wrong it probably is and it was his advice that led me to finding out about my wife's affair

Chica,

Very rarely a man develops this kind of connection with a woman without sex.

Plus he already had in the past.

Your gut tells you he truth, and any way he is having a relationship with another woman.
Are you ok with that?

I am sure you don’t

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Except you are not responsible for his behavior. He doesn’t seem to have a cut off valve. He keeps leaking morals.

See a lawyer. You can stay right where you are but you need financial assurance that no matter your decision you and you children have a roof over your heads.

Thank you all for your messages
It’s only been a few days and I still don’t know what to do. How long do I take? Should I give myself a deadline to decide something? I don’t want to be consumed by this.. I want to be present with my kids. He’s not in my way but I know I eventually have to make a decision. How long did it take you from DDay to take the next step of either reconciliation or separation?

How are your emotions progressing? Do you still feel like you don’t care and are able to walk away? If so, what are the concerns you have in taking the steps to make that happen?

Sounds like he didn’t actually do the work the first time around. I can understand your lack of care and your feeling sort of over it. That makes sense given he’s put you through this before. I’m so sorry you’re here again.

We have been completely ignoring each other, still only texting about kids. He hasn’t initiated any conversations or approached to apologize since maybe about 5 days after DDay. I think this behavior, kinda like a silent treatment is starting to trigger me more, and get me upset mainly when he’s home…which is not much. I decided to go through some of his stuff, found;

1. cash $200 hidden in his wallet pocket

2. a receipt of a return he did but had the AP name as guest. So I assume she gifted him something and he returned and received merchant credit.

3. Found a print out of an online gift card from another women who I don’t who it is and only said Happy Holiday. So I guess another A! Which I was like wow this mana ability to have us 3?

4. Today, day before Valentine’s Day, found a gift hidden in his trunk, new headphones, which I’ve never requested so I know those are for his AP.

5. Today also, day before valentines, checked his call logs and saw he called a delivery florist for a 30 minutes. So someone is getting flowers.

6. Couldn’t go back farther than 2 months on call log, but did see 2 calls to ugly crappy motels few weeks before DDay.

And here I sit still in shock, about the initial DDay and now in more shock with things I’ve found. And I’m still being very informative with him about our kids busy schedules. Why do I act so nice/ cordial regarding my kids? Is it bc I just don’t want my kids miss out having there dad around…

[This message edited by chica1 at 12:03 AM, Saturday, February 14th]

Chica, good job on your part being hyper vigilant! What you have found in evidence is shocking! Think of his actions that are against you, your marriage, and yes, your children. Gearing up for Valentine’s Day and the gifts are for other women. Divorcing him IS protecting your 2 kids under 13. Good luck to you.

Chica, I think you have the right attitude, as upsetting as this is. This confirms what you've seen in your husband before and it's not just a mistake. It's a deliberate pattern of behavior that he's hiding from you, and as you can see, there may be more than 1 AP. So if this were me I'd say...."while I'd like to keep an intact family for the kids, I can't live with a husband who does these things. This is what you're like and rather than trying to save the marriage, I want a divorce and you can try to change or repair yourself or do what you want. I'm going to live the best life I can with my own standards and behavior." To me, that's it in a nut shell, he's decided, as so many do, that he wants to live like this and you can't have both a happy marriage and be cheating on your spouse. Those things do not go together and they are a very bad model for kids to grow up with and there's constant tension in a house like that. It's better to make the break. If he changes later, well, maybe you can reconcile, but that behavior really kills all the love as you've found out. I've felt the same way myself.

You're a brave, strong and smart woman with good sense and I admire you. Your kids are lucky to have you and your husband is a damn fool - but that's his choice. Right now, I'd collect the evidence, go to a lawyer, start the process, and get an STI test. If you can get him out of the house, that would be best and go as little contact as possible. He's only gonna keep lying to you, it's what he does now and maybe he's been doing it much longer than you realize. If you were to stay with him and try to patch this up, you'll never know what to expect in the future because you can't trust him. He may have made plans that don't include you and the kids or he may eventually. How would you know? YOU have to make the plans for yourself and your kids - if he doesn't want to be part of that family because of his behavior, that's on him. Boundaries and consequences.

Last time you gave him a huge gift, forgiveness. He just threw that gift away. He is a serial cheater.

See an attorney ASAP, protect yourself and your children. Get IC for you.

Chica:

So sorry you're here again. It's good you're not "distraught", but this is trauma make no mistake. Suggest getting some emotional support pronto. Take care of yourself! IC just for you with someone trained in trauma recovery and intimate partner betrayal would be ideal.

Understand the urge to sit on making decisions for a while. You want to be sure you're making well informed choices, and don't want "overthinking" to take energy away from being the sane parent for your kids. Okay, seems reasonable. BUT.......

Taking longer to decide could give him room to spend $$, or hide $$ or move $$ around. Hope you're keeping an eagle eye on finances! One of the benefits of filing for separation or divorce now rather than postponing = the act of filing forces a snap-shot of financials as they stand right now. Which could help to protect $$$. The proceedings can be paused or cancelled at any time if you change your mind. May take months for the filing to finalize; depends upon jurisdiction. Taking care of yourself after infidelity must include financial self-care!

Sorry to say, this guy is a serial cheater who woos APs/OW with gifts and flowers (1/2 hour !! phone call to a florist - how many delivery orders did he place??); he throws down $$ for hotels. He hoards cash - which is suspicious. What's the cash for? Get the feeling fiduciary responsibility isn't his thing....... 1/2 of that frittered away $$$ is YOUR money! Also feels possible these recently discovered purchases could be just the tip of the iceberg. His suspicious spendthrift-like ways could be tied to requisite Valentine's expenditures - or may go back for years! Hope not, but seems prudent to dig into financial history to protect yourself, and to protect the kids - such as taking a close look at all cash withdrawals, credit and checking records, online shopping sites. Suggest running credit checks on joint credit info (and on him!) to be sure there's no hidden credit cards or debt. Maybe freeze credit on the main credit reporting sites so he can't open new lines of joint credit?Just in case.

Please do talk to a lawyer or two ASAP to discuss options and to understand your rights, especially things to do right now to financially protect yourself. And, tell the lawyer about marital funds spent on his extracurricular activities. That money can be recouped. Take care of yourself Chica! Please protect yourself and the kids with prudent and proactive financial protection decisions made NOW, whether you go, or especially if you decide to stay in the marriage while getting those ducks lined up. Serial cheaters are sometimes practiced at lying and fraud. A pattern of repeat infidelities doesn't usually happen in a vacuum. How does he treat other people? Does he practice "rules for thee but not for me" in business dealings as well as in marriage? Better safe than sorry - be proactive, be assertive, be strong. You can do this!

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:08 AM, Wednesday, February 18th]

Had a conversation with WS while kids were at school. Of course apologies and said excuses of why he kept his distance, such as he was ashamed of himself and realized how not only did he cheat on me but our kids etc. He said he doesn’t know what to do to help me heal but also knows something is wrong with him internally. I had a long list of questions I had been writing in regard to the affair and he answered them. He added other details because he said he knew it would help me, and also help him not hide. One thing he added was conversation topics they had which included childhood, families, children etc. So even though he’s denying the connection and he sees it as conversational, the AP got to know him quite well in the 4 months of affair. He hasn’t asked me for R nor D. He also admitted that they planned to meet at a motel/outside of work for the first time a few days after DDay. According to him, he feels that’s a reason he let me see his phone, when I confronted him while he was texting her and had no chance to delete. He he knew I would read the messages and discover the affair. He wasn’t man enough to tell me. He also said he wasn’t man enough to tell his AP that he didn’t want to meet her and end things with her because his guilt was taking over, he would look at me and feel guilt and shame and repeat to himself he needed to stop the affair and tell me but said he lacked the strength. He also said even though he knows he’s loosing me and is disappointed by the pain he’s caused, he is also relieved because the affair is over, he was tired of hiding, deleting and lieing to me and living that way. Another thing he mentioned is he wants to reach out to his family and my family to confess about his affair. I have not told any family members. I told him, I do not want him to contact my family members, I said they are mine and if I want them to know, I will do it myself. I said as for his family, that’s his family and his choice. He asked if I wanted him to start sharing his location and I said I honestly don’t care anymore, what will you do cheat on me more? lol that was just my sarcasm and checking out.. he starter sharing it a couple days after, we’ll see how long it last. He admitted to hiding cash. Confessed AP bought him a Christmas gift and he did not want to bring it home, so he returned it. He gave her a gift card for Christmas that he paid with cash. A lot of things I did not want to hear, but was somewhat surprised he wasn’t trying to do damage control which is his go to. Had a conversation with WS while kids were at school. Of course apologies and said excuses of why he kept his distance, such as he was ashamed of himself and realized how not only did he cheat on me but our kids etc. He said he doesn’t know what to do to help me heal but also knows something is wrong with him internally. I had a long list of questions I had been writing in regard to the affair and he answered them. He added other details because he said he knew it would help me, and also help him not hide. One thing he added was conversation topics they had which included childhood, families, children etc. So even though he’s denying the connection and he sees it as conversational, the AP got to know him quite well in the 4 months of affair. He hasn’t asked me for R nor D. He also admitted that they planned to meet at a motel/outside of work for the first time a few days after DDay. According to him, he feels that’s a reason he let me see his phone, when I confronted him while he was texting her and had no chance to delete. He he knew I would read the messages and discover the affair. He wasn’t man enough to tell me. He also said he wasn’t man enough to tell his AP that he didn’t want to meet her and end things with her because his guilt was taking over, he would look at me and feel guilt and shame and repeat to himself he needed to stop the affair and tell me but said he lacked the strength. He also said even though he knows he’s loosing me and is disappointed by the pain he’s caused, he is also relieved because the affair is over, he was tired of hiding, deleting and lieing to me and living that way. Another thing he mentioned is he wants to reach out to his family and my family to confess about his affair. I have not told any family members. I told him, I do not want him to contact my family members, I said they are mine and if I want them to know, I will do it myself. I said as for his family, that’s his family and his choice. He asked if I wanted him to start sharing his location and I said I honestly don’t care anymore, what will you do cheat on me more? lol that was just my sarcasm and checking out.. he starter sharing it a couple days after, we’ll see how long it last. He admitted to hiding cash. Confessed AP bought him a Christmas gift and he did not want to bring it home, so he returned it. He he gave her a gift card for Christmas that he paid with cash. The florist… my daughter and I received a lot of flowers and plants on Valentine’s Day, I asked for receipts and only shows my delivery. The headphones, he gifted his sister. A lot of things I did not want to hear, but was somewhat surprised he wasn’t trying to do damage control which is his go to.

Once I got the answers to the questions I had and felt mentally drained, I reiterated that my focus is not on a relationship with him, nor do I care about what he feels, thinks, does or doesn’t do but my focus is on myself.

Well, 1 month in post DDay, as of today my mind says divorce because I believe he will do it again. But my heart is in pain. I joined the gym, did my physical with sti testing(negative) and plan to start some refresher classes in March. Doing my best to feel and heal. Thanks for reading.

A lot of stuff to unpack here, and I will not, because I feel you need to unpack it yourself right now.
But you need to be heard as it is not ok.
You have been heard. I agree it’s not ok.

I like you can express it, talk about it.

I can give you some food for thought of what I know about men and women, I had more of the second in my life as close relationships, but I am also a guy who is pretty observant of "the competition ", and I have been destroyed enough to fall lower than most guys as it goes for insecurities induced by romantic relationships.

Keep in mind here 2 common traits of unresolved issues are at play: low self worth, people pleasing. Common among cheaters, likely a driver that breaks their moral compass.

So ahead, and I will be merciless:

I am not enough of a man for…

I have a deep repulsion for this one because I know how you can get to that feeling. But the natural healthy response should be anger and a rebound from that feeling. Otherwise you are longing into victimization for yourself, which is nothing but a projection for excusing your future shit and exploiting others, because you suffered first.

I felt that as a teen on my first love, a brutal betrayal of a kid who was naively in love like just children can.
How does it make you feel in the toxic way?

- You wanted connection
- You wanted to please, to be felt as special
- she made you feel disposable

I am not enough of a man.

So knowing this is why "she" (as in all women) cannot love me fully, I will take what is offered knowing full well that is temporary and transactional, so I will take from other women as well, to fill the bottle that will unavoidably get empty as the time with a girl run it’s course. The next one is pouring in. I will not tell either, because I fear the flow will stop sooner and I didn’t yet find a new replacement, so I’ll keep going with that while feeling sad, until they are drained.

Seems self compassionate but is twisted shit, you paint yourself as a victim and at the same time you’re exploiting people.

Low self worth + people pleasing turned into pure self soothing selfishness.

This is what he is doing right here in your narration

Excuse his passive attitude as "Iam too sensitive and afraid to hurt anyone of you two" painting himself as too empathetic for hurting you or his other woman. In reality he is draining both you and her to the last drop until one of you decides to tell him to fuck off.

He is storing what he can harvest for his broken ego, to soothe the low self worth and survive until the next "loving female" willing to give him water happens in his radar.

And he is painting it as people pleasing "I don’t take decisions because they will hurt you or her, and I don’t want to hurt anyone "

Understand why is twisted?

I know it very well because I have lived it once, and in my case was from a childhood trauma of feeling "unlovable " since birth, abandonment. This causes low self worth, he may have a similar trauma that to this day is still unresolved, so he developed this survival strategy, people "pleasing " (not very pleasant for you after all but that’s how his nerves system likely sees it).

Coming from a guy with a similar issue, that only now I understood, and guess what?
After my first time falling in love and being betrayed I got big into polygamy too.

Theirs is no a moment with the exception of the next 3 relationships (as real girlfriends) where I wasn’t rotating between a couple to a dozen of different girls.
Because I felt that very same emptiness that your husband likely feels.
Because I was sure that if I committed I would be hurt again.

And because whenever I broke that pattern and I went monogamous with a girl I got betrayed. Every single time.

The only difference between your husband behavior and my own fucked up past behavior is the people pleasing part.

I am not a people pleaser. I had a similar issue with low self worth but in my case was not consolidated but fluctuating.

I felt often like trash, but had too much external validation and also internal pride to sit in that place for long. So it was ambivalent, feeling low I felt like unlovable garbage, all other times I was fully aware I can get anything I want if I just put my heart into it.

So I wasn’t interested in pleasing, I was mote driven to lead others.

I also learned quite fast that girls resented the people pleasing "nice guys" and liked a lot my "zero fucks" attitude. It was just better to get what I wanted at that time, and what I wanted was to get into their pants, not connection because it terrified me, I still had that "unlovable " trauma.

The only difference between me and your husband is I was upfront and unapologetic in telling my girls "you are just one I like to see, I am not your boyfriend and want no relationship " because being unavailable is intoxicating for many. This is how I got my "fix" of drops to soothe my pain. If I lose one girl I was confident there’s a replacement just days later even in those moments when I didn’t have others already around.

Your husband strategy is identical, but he cheats because he’s afraid to lose access, so he "people please" which when you discover it, not only kills your attraction as a woman, but also hurts you even deeper because you love him.

I didn’t cheat and was open about my polygamy because I had cognitive dissonance for self worth and I was never a people pleaser or a "nice guy" (understand the figure of speech, I truly care for people and I even cared for those girls, is about the ego attitude towards trauma and outside validation)

I despised cheating and lying both as weak, and disgusting because it hurts the other person so deeply. I was afraid to open emotionally because I always got hurt and betrayed. I didn’t need external validation as much as a cheat usually craves it, I was hypercritical of others and of myself. My point was to have a clear deal and clear rules, you can take it or bail out. Because it would hurt, but far far less than cheating.

Your husband has likely all those traits in steroids, that’s why the cheating and that’s why he is so passive.

Is easier to indulge in the "I am not a man" commiseration because it excuses him to do any work or decisions or actions. Anyway he is "not worthy " so what is the point in even trying? He will fail like with the rest!

Now, is it any of that true?

No, it is not.
Is the bullshit our little hurt child inside tells us to explain the pain and the fear of change.

But he is an adult, not a lost child anymore.
He is a man, and lovable, as he must have something good, even special, since you feel in love with him and are even trying to reconnect after the ultimate loss that is his betrayal.
He CAN embrace and embody the second.
He is just too familiar with the first, is what his system knows best, but is bullshit, is not best now that he grew up, is worse for him and for those he loves.

He has likely never put in the effort to acknowledge the hurt child and his tactics of survival.
Because he married you, he loved you, at some point in his life there was a moment where he felt the need to overcome that unsolved trauma.

But something happened that made him resort to the old pattern and issue at some point, because they were just buried, never addressed. So there is when he entered the affair. That threw him again into that old survival behavior of passive child.

You can’t kick him up in shape and man up, he is already a man, no matter what he feels about now.
He must accept the trauma, acknowledge it and face it, to free that lost child and embrace the man who he is supposed to be. Your husband. Your man. And no one else’s man.

And he can do it. This is what you must face if you want to have a shot of him recovering a pair. He didn’t lose them, he is just convincing himself he never had them.

You are hurting with full right and probably wondering why.
I bet this is likely what is going on, I understand his feelings because I know them, they were similar but opposite to my old issues and that’s why I loathe them and cheating so deeply.

Not because I loathe your husband, he is not a monster just a wounded person. I loathe that weakness that self commiseration, and he likely deep down does too.

If my hunch is right that could be the only ticket out of this stupid mess. To heal him but above all to heal your pain, because you are the victim here, a casualty of his war against himself, his self sabotage.

That or the divorce. I have been there in your shoes and I still am so I know what you feel.
But I feel you want the divorce way less than me. Right now it feels like a reaction to the pain and inaction of your wayward that an emotionally desirable outcome.

If this resonates try to face it with him. You can’t lead him out his shell but you can voice the trauma and see if he is willing to face it once again, for good this time, with therapy.

He won it already once, the day he married you.
He already knows he can do it.

You can offer him this hand, he just need to take it and stand up, he’ll discover that after all he can walk alone if he just tries, because HE IS a man after all.

And then he can walk alongside his wife. Proudly of the gift she offered him: Love