SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Me 67 BH, she 60 WW, EA in 2007, R, and I just discovered (an inactive?) PA in 2017. I am monitoring her communications and will decide accordingly if to move out.

I want to tell my whole story and ask what is best to do. Writing it will be therapeutic for me. I will give lots of details, I know that basically all affairs are the same, but I still need to tell you everything. My wife is still somewhat of a mystery to me

M in 1984, she 24, me 30. We were in a meditating community. I was a teacher and older. In a position of leadership, a take-charge guy. She had low self-esteem, though good-looking. Her two (much) older sisters had ignored, and ostracized her as a child, maybe from jealousy. Her father was old-school 'master of the house'. Her mother never handled money, she was a very sweet stay-at-home mom. WW has a categorizes some people as: 'Strong' its important to her. I guess I was Strong at first, but not now. She Liked the protection she had from being with me. I Helped her become a teacher, gain status. We 2 worked together, became a power couple in the community. After 9 years the boys arrived.

In 1999 she then became disillusioned with our community (due to internal conflicts). And also began suffering from RA. We also had less sex, and she became more critical of me and the community where I was trying to build a big new project. I just found out now, that back in 1997 she had gone unbeknown to me, to her HS boy friends' wedding (he was her first sex partner) without telling me about it.

She pushed for us to go abroad to another community, for the boys' schooling. So in 2001, we did. She became somewhat incapacitated due to her RA attacks. I was trying to provide for us, she was dealing with our elementary school boys. We had 3 bad financial years till I got on my feet financially. To make it, I became a consultant, basically, a road warrior traveling from M-F. That helped us get on our financial feet.

I tried to make sure we had sex on weekends. Feeling it was an important bond. But she said it hurt her, and she did not welcome it. When we did, she was passive. Sometimes she cried... I tried to suggest non-penetration sex, But she had no interest in other forms of sex... was conservative, shy.

IN 2005 She tells me of a great spiritual guy. She met him at a seminar and has had long-distance talks with him about life and getting the drama we had gone through with our community in a spiritual perspective ( later I found out he was probably grooming her and had wrecked several marriages). Then he moved to our town and we all meet because she wants us to be friends. Afterward, I tell her I don't like the attention he gives her (and her vibe). I told her I didn't want her to see him, or be in touch with him. BTW at this time, I was already a road warrior and only came home on weekends.

She had gotten herself a private email .. something we did not have before (this was in 2005 before social media, etc). One day in 2007 I arrive home and find the computer with her open email on our family computer. She and this OP guy I had asked her not to meet, were planning how to meet at a church concert. And since I was home for the weekend, they were discussed how to hide it. She wrote him: 'you are my soul mate, if we will not join in this life, then we'll meet in the next lifetime....'

I called her outside, (the boys were home) and told her what I had seen. She lies, makes excuses, etc, and runs back into the house and erases the emails.

So I invited a mutual friend (as a witness and to spread the news) and that OP to our home that very in the evening using some excuse. I confronted them, asking them that since they seem in love, does he want to marry her? take care of her illness? support her? They hem and haw, and look at each other, and do not give a clear answer.

I feel the outsider.

As he walks out, I tell him that since he is not taking responsibility for her, there will be no more contact, otherwise he will have me to contend with. Physically.

She said it had been a 2-year thing. It morphed from 'wise old man (he was 10 years older than me, white-haired) to being in love like in high school. She said she had learned many important things from him. He also somehow reminded her of her father.

That they had 'just kissed' and went for long daily walks, holding hands in the park, she coming to the walk with our dog. They would end up sometimes at his place and make out on the coach at his place. She said he was not able to 'do it' due to an physical problem with his genitals. However in making out she had felt it through the cloths semi-erect. She vehemently held that it was just emotional, not physical. Also she said I had ignored her, and she had felt that our marriage was dead. So she felt it was not much of a betrayal.

At the same time she said that after a few months of becoming somewhat physical hugging kissing etc, she started feeling conflicted, and had wanted to end it. She also said he was the last person she would want to live with. She just liked the talks and perspectives on life. And it was just a sort of teenage infatuation. He was not marriage material and that she knew very well he was not dependable or straight. In their emails and I saw many passages where she is telling him how great and successful and wonderful I am. And in our talks this also came up. I read Bob Huizenga's books and courses. He categorized her as the type that has an emotional type: low self-esteem, a strong father figure. likely to have just one affair.

[Well 10 years later she had another affair. A PA this time. Go figure.]

So we did a sort of reset. I suggested we do her dream of getting a second degree , and we relocate. I helped her get admitted and we moved two states over. The talks continued, but after a while she was not as open and said we should not re-pen things. For the first few months I tracked her mails. They kept in touch, she wrote him how she had to stop, that i was on to her. She was sorry. Etc. confronted her, demanded a message I edited to tell him no more contact, unfriended him, closed her private email, etc. and it petered out.

We were in a sort of R. But I think she was also scared of being caught, losing her status and marriage. And she liked college and the status of a master's degree. So Life went on.

We had 4 nice years. Her in college and me building my business. We did have sex. Maybe she did not initiate, but she was available/compliant. We seemed on the right track.

In 2011 when she graduated, we returned back to our home country. My business had more financial success. Her RA got under control. We got a nice house. The boys were in HS or grown-up, life seemed on track.

From 2007 we had seen 2-3 therapists. She some for 1-2 years, both of us saw some others for short periods. Later back in our home country, she again saw several therapists, and she always wanted me to 'work' on changing myself to improve the marriage. We also went to 2 couples therapists. So about 2017 while we are doing the last couple therapy, I later found out that she had reached out to a former HS sweetheart (and first sexual partner. Who she had gone to his wedding without me, in 1997), and met him for a talk and a to catch up, and then a few weeks later, met him and had sex. Later, in a private session (I did not know about the PA then) I asked the therapist if we could fix the marriage if my wife actually wanted me? Her answer was a careful 'maybe better to split up.

She says I snore so for the last your or so, we cannot sleep together, but she never comes for a goodnight hug. However, on some cold nights, we do sleep together. And sometimes there are hugs and cuddles (no kisses) and she seems to like being warmed, cuddled, but puts boundaries. Sometimes she comes home from her clinic (it started taking off) and gives me a whole-body hug. Over these last years, she has become very critical of me. Even In front of the boys. She belittles my successes. Asks for business advice about her clinic, but always rejects it. Outside she hugs me, puts on a show we are a great couple... This was in contrast to our early years were I was dominant. For a while I decided to go with it, and let her run things, we did it mostly her way. I let her fun finances, make decisions, saw if it improved things.

She seemed to become more domineering, up to a point where she yelled, trashed and even one time threatened she would hit me (which do to my size and background is a joke). I see her as not brave enough to pull the plug, but it seems she does not feel she owes me much more than household stuff, medical treatments, and managing our joint finances (i think fairly). She wants to bitch about me, but also to enjoy family life, status, support. (Sometimes enjoy a romantic friend on the side). To have her cake and eat it too.

For the last 15-20 years it seems she is fighting my father/control/ protecting figure to gain her independence. And she wants to keep that, as well as to continue to be the center of the family (she is a good mom, I think) and be appreciated and loved at home. The best of both worlds.

She has two personalities within her. She leans and trusts and depends on me. Agonizes if I do not tell her what to do or choose in some situations. Yet when I pick a stand or start a project – she is very critical and antagonistic. I call it that she is fighting (at age 60) her war of independence.

But she can also be wonderful at times. And if it was a genuine R I would be happy to stay with her. And I do know our small family would slide if we D. Both boys do sometimes yell at her to get off my back. They know what's going on (but, I think, not the affairs, i think).

So just last month I changed course (After I found out about the PA) in 2017. I began confronting her. She waved D threats. Wanted us to sign a sort of prenup, agree on the division of property just in case... So I told her you'll get your half, fair and square. And I am past grieving for our marriage. Just write me a formal request to D and we'll go it. Just take into account our standard of living will go down. She has threatened several times, but never written a letter. I also began stopping her when she started her trashing and criticism. She did diminish that kind of talk. Not totally. But I feel better.

I year back I cashed some property to allow us trips etc. and got us an electric car on her birthday, with balloons, happy birthday, etc. She hugged the boys, but not me, and since then she says it’s a present for me, not her. And that she does not trust it on long trips and won't go drive in it to a place (that is still within range), because 'she does not trust it'. She has demanded to buy a different car. My response – I will not go to that resort, or destination if we drive in a different car.

Sex became occasional. Diminishing slowly over time, to close so zero today. Usually she said she was 'done with it', not interested, it hurts, etc. But we do sleep together and there are hugs, massages, etc.

It's interesting that in 2017 the therapist gave us an exercise to write up a secret. I wrote about the EA in 2007. She wrote about her HS boyfriend with the PA. We were supposed to burn them. But I found then lying in a drawer 5 years later. It's possible she wanted them found. Just as with the EA she left the Emails open on the computer.

Last month her homeopath who has treated her for years (and likely knows all her issues with me) treated me. I reported a dream that: we had parted, and I had fixed up a new place for me. The homeopath asked me how I felt. I said relieved. She then encouraged me to do it, get myself that place of my own. She actually pushed her professional boundaries in doing this. She went out on a limb to say that.

My perspective and feelings have changed. My focus has changed. For at least the last 20 years, I was trying to fix the marriage, change, do R. Now I am fine both ways. Fix it or change.

After 38 years of being focused on pleasing and gaining her back, and never looking at another woman, I actually flirted with 2 ladies. One returned the interest, the other not at all;). It never happened before. I was focused on her. And now I choose to stand my ground, I don't allow her to trash me. I no longer see D. or better, a separation (due to economics and the family reasons) as the end of the world. My backup plan is to move to a rental unit we own that is at the back of our house, but has a separate entrance. This is practical for walking the dog, seeing the boys, and keeping expenses down.

Moving out, and then having the big discussion will make the point I am not worried of D. She may panic. and re-consider what she is losing. If she wanted back, I would go for it, if it’s the real thing. Full disclosure, a warm bed, etc. When it's good it can be good. But it has not been so for a long time.

Right now I am tracking and figuring her true mindset, and looking to see if she and the HS boyfriend (or someone else) are still in contact. If it was a one-time thing and he/she was not Interested to continue, or if it is ongoing. That kind of affair (ongoing, extended) would make it easy for me to bring things to a head. I hope in a week or two I will have the full picture, and make a decision.

This is a big step and I do not want to harm my life more than I have to.

I just cannot 'read' her or get inside her head.

I know I seem blind and stupid, but hey,

I can use all the help I can get.

That's it folks.

Happy to hear your insights ideas and feedback.

Thanks for listening!

[This message edited by Sun108 at 4:42 PM, Thursday, March 3rd]

Somtimes she comes home from her clinic (it started taking off) and gives me a big whole body hug.

I get big hugs from lots of friends almost every time I see them. I'm getting more physical expressions of affection from my friends than you are from your wife. I almost think outside the cheating you might want to think about whether your marriage is meeting your emotional needs for love and affection. Cheating is almost the icing on the shit cake here.

It's been my experience that serial cheating is very difficult behavior to change, as it represents the cheater's coping mechanism vs. something that was an unexpected opportunity. Chronic lying is another one (and serial cheaters are almost always chronic liars).

Cat

From your story, it looks like you have been played through much of your marriage. You may only know the tip of the iceberg. Unless I missed something, it sounds like you have not confronted your WW with her 2017 affair yet. What are you waiting for? From what you have written, it seems that your wife doesn't respect or love you. You are tied to her whipping post. You are her safety net that she periodically thinks about dumping. Two others (one is a therapist) that know the two of you, have hinted that you should move on. Whether you stay is up to you. I would personally blow her out of the water regarding her 2017 affair just before I have her served with divorce papers. But that's me.

I wish you well and urge you to think about your life and how it can be much better without her.

[This message edited by src9043 at 10:47 PM, Wednesday, March 2nd]

I suggest you keep your story in one thread for better results, I will repeat here what I wrote on the other one, her firs A was NOT an EA, the make out sessions alone make it a PA, however these are 2 people involved in an A for 2 years, it's very unlikely they just stopped at "kissing" despite her claims, the "we just kissed" story is at the very top of the chart on the infamous "Cheater's Handbook". To summarize what I wrote on the other thread, I'm sorry but you have described a terrible M, file for D and end this farce, life's too short and you deserve so much better than a proven serial cheater and liar, don't forget to get tested for STDs, contact a D attorney Pronto !.

Sun,

Read what you posted as if someone else had written it.

What would your observations be? What would you advise (since you seem to be in the business of guiding)?

I'm around your age, it's hard to start over at this age. My H is the road warrior and the cheater. My first discovery was in 2012, there have been 2 more that I know about, I'm sure there are more. I'm not even sure why I'm still here, his last affair was 2 years ago, he tells me he's impotent which I don't believe because, why would he have an affair if he can't perform. We don't have sex unless I get angry about it, we don't really even touch that much, a little hug before he leaves, that's it. The last one told me he's staying with me so he doesn't lose half his net worth, which I believe is true. My advice to you would be respect yourself, move out and ask out that woman who flirted back

Dear inmisery, and all you other brothers and sisters in arms...

Firstly, I don't know how to thank you! These few days of readung your posts have cleared my mind. After 25 years of (at least) 2 A, my mind and vision have cleared. My path of action is clear(er).

1. I am playing with her. Standing up strongly to attempts at verbal abuse, and projecting a strong, non-conciliative persona. I actualy moved away last night when she scootched closer.

2. Collecting proof for the confrontation.

3. Told all to our rental unit tenant and he agreed to move out (divorced, so was sympathetic). It should happen in 60 days. I want to move in one day so when she returns in the evening, the move is complete, a fact.

4. I will plan and prepare to redecorate the unit, and shortly before I move out - tell all to our grown up boys. I think they are very important, and could exert pressure on her to do the right thing.

5. Prepare for D.

6. Be open to connect with other lady friends

7. I am rehearsing how to confront her. Basically that:

- I now know that after the 1st affair there was another/s.

- that it is unacceptable for me to continue with a cheating wife, so I am moving to our rental unit.

- that its up to her: we can D, or truly R.

- if she chooses to R its on her. There is only a 30pct statistical chance of success. It's hard, but there are expert resources, a sort of 12 step program, a clear sequence of steps for the WS, snd the BS This has happened to many.
This program helped me, it might help her.
But there will be no more 'blaming the BH, fixing him or sharing the blame with him.
Its. Since she broke the marriage, its on her to fix it. If she does her part,I will do mine.

- At this stage, I don't blame you. You acted like our dog when she stole some food from the tale. Its totally wrong, breaks the covenant, is unacceptable. But also childishly immature. You had inner conflicts, It was probably hard to remember you were cheating. Your inner lizard brain ego made eccuses to make it look alright. That I was the cause of you cheating. But it was you, and you
ot only lied to me, but to yourself. So I am not angry or excited. I hope you had a good time eating your cake and having it too.

I am now putting an end to that. If you want this marriage to maybe continue - you have to put in the work to be a real wife. A loyal wife. That means a wife who has done the hard work to heal her inner weakness.

Again, thanks for all you online freinds. Dearer and closer than many personal freinds!

[This message edited by Sun108 at 2:00 PM, Saturday, March 5th]

I like that you have a plan. Very positive step.

Maybe time snd space will help you end up with the marriage you deserve snd your wife will do the heavy lifting needed to make amends and repair the damage.

Please be prepared for two potential outcomes;

She gets angry you are leaving and continues to blame you

She gets very upset and makes all kinds of promises in an attempt to get you to stay. She may start to make promises and lovebomb you etc.

I think you are expecting and hoping to see positive actions from her. If she asks you what she needs to do, tell her to figure it out. On her own. That will be the true test of her commitment to change and recognition of her culpability in this.

I hope it works out for you.

Your post struck me because we have so much in common. We're around the same age, both of us lived outside our home country, we've both been living half a life for a number of years with serial cheaters and I also have a home, a rental unit and young adult children. I don't know why I'm waiting, at first I told myself I was waiting to qualify for medicare and SS for security. Now I suppose I'm waiting for my adult son to find his way since the pandemic or I just don't want to be alone and fear I'll never find anyone else. Your totally self centered spouse like mine is probably staying for financial reasons, why shouldn't they? They're convinced we'll never leave and they can live in their little exciting fantasy world. They don't care about our needs or the pain and humiliation this is costing us. You're doing the right thing....keep your resolve, stay mad, get your ducks in a row and start your new life.

I really like the advice The1stWife has given you.

I admire your courage to take charge now and make a stand.

I hope she realizes she's close to losing you here and makes a serious and lengthy effort to win you back and behave herself.

Try not to take it too hard if she digs in her heels now and forces your hand. Also, she could very well play a longer game on you here, winning you back now with no long term intention of staying monogamous.

She has a lot to make up for and not a great track record of thinking about you.

Keep your wits about you mate, and stay strong. I think the chances of her finally staying true to you are so-so at best.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 10:16 PM, Saturday, March 5th]

Yes. Leave. She's a horrible partner even without the infidelity, life is too short to waste it with miserable MF'ers.

that its up to her: we can D, or truly R.

Be careful how you phrase this. Don't give her the idea that you surrender power or control to her. Ultimately, it's your decision to D or R - even if she does all the hard work.

If anything, she should believe you have decided to divorce unless she can prove to you that she deserves a second chance (and she doesn't get to just say: 'trust me').

Guys, and Gals!
I finally found people u can talk to. Who understand! Can't thank you enough!

Update:
Set a meeting with an old lady freind who was very close to WW.
She is a D lawyer, but specialized in R.
I will meet her, lay it out, ask her to mediate, to help her get out of the addictive behaviour, and if necessary - arrange an amicable D. Since WW trusts her and would feel safe with her, I hope it will make for a better process.
Saw a lawyer to change my will (leaving all to the boys), who could also handle D.
Shared with my brother. He said that he always felt tension in the house. Everyone tiptoing so WW does not get hurt or blow up. He saw a pattern where she gives the minimum warmth so family us starve if affection, and does what she wants. Withholds warmth, or lovebombs, or gets upset to get what she wants. A good insight for me.
Meanwhile she spends an inordinate amount of time with a lady freind. Recently D, who i guess eggs her on. They plan weekend getaways to seminar, a resort, went to an art gallery till late (it was open till midnight). BTW, I got us tickets to this gallery, but cancelled due to corona.
This freind calls her when we are in the car. WW rejects and writed i'll call you later, am in car with H...
Later I make tea, she says i have to take this.... goes to another room, closes door, and stays there for over an hour.

Sooooooo.... Very much seems like the behaviour if another A. Possibly with a woman, or this girlfreind might be a cover for a man. Except the snippets i hear are: Updating freind 'BS told me he is going to councilling, so i will wait. And even then I don't know if i'll have the guts to cut the cord. I dissapoint myself....'
So my current guess is the D girlfreind is grooming her to D to feel good about her own D. And WW, responds with everyone is doing it,and how difficult it is, and how impossible I am. A mutual admiration society......

It's sad how she runs towards the people who are going to ruin her life, just to get justification for cheating and hurting, and runs away from the one who does care for her, and could actually have her back...

Wish me well in my meeting today....