SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 11:25 PM, Monday, September 22nd]

Please, understand that I may come off as harsh, but I am not trying to. You said, "I’m willing to end my marriage on a hunch" but it’s not a hunch. He had an affair, and then lied about it after. You don’t have a hunch, your marriage is already over. Please, you don’t have to wait for the other shoe to drop. He already ended the marriage, you don’t need anything else to walk away. Even if you gave the gift of R, YOU don’t have any obligation to stay. Even if he was remorseful and actually trying, (and he isn’t at all) you can always end the relationship if it isn’t good for you. From your post, it’s not, at all. It’s toxic as hell.

Now reread everything you wrote. You don’t have a marriage, you have a war zone. Violence, lies, manipulation, telling you to contact AP (because they are always so trustworthy). I feel from reading your post you’re holding on to what you thought you had, not what you actually have.

I think you need to at the very least, separate and go NC with him, for your mental health. No one is worth sacrificing yourself for, especially not a cheater. It can be scary and lonely, but it’s ok, and it will be ok. You know your self worth and that you are worth way more than you are getting.

I agree with HINHF. I think separation is in order and it will serve more than one purpose: You get to have a break from the craziness and he'll get to experience the full consequences of his actions.

Is separation feasible?

I feel I am willing to end our marriage at this point on just a hunch and a (scarily accurate) gut feeling. Because who else can I trust?

You're not ending a marriage on a hunch, you'd be ending it because your WH cheated and lied repeatedly.

Infidelity and TT (and all the other manner of psychological torture he is putting you through) is ABUSE.

Would you put up with this if he was physically abusing you? Hoping that in 2 months, he'll just magically stop punching you? The fact that he is punching walls and throwing things is actually really concerning... just a hop-skip-and a jump from hitting walls to hitting people.

If you truly feel you can cut the cord now, do it. Could it really be a worse existence than what you're currently living through?

Here is part of a long post I wrote to TinyTim in the wayward side just the other day, where I explained the damage TT did to my relationship with my WH:

To a BS the fact that the WS is wiling to "protect themselves" over the needs of the BS [by trickle truthing them], after causing so much pain is PROOF the WS cannot be trusted to make a different choice in the future or trust in what they are telling us now.

The things you describe as happening in your house, minus the throwing things and the sitting on top of your WH begging, happened in mine post-d-day 2. My WH claimed he wanted to R, and stopped the A (he did - for awhile, and then went back). He threw things (not at me but on the floor, against the wall), we yelled and screamed, and he stonewalled me, or ignored me. I cried, begged for the truth, and his disdain for me grew and grew.

Gross. Even thinking about it now is just

I didn't get any separation between he and I at that time. I thought it wasn't possible. I should have. It was UGLY and it was not RECONCILIATION. It was affair-aftermath. It was horrendous. And while I was much less nasty than my WH, there were things I said designed to hurt him for the sake of hurting him. It was totally out of control.

I suspect, you, like many of us (me included) felt like leaving was giving up and letting him/the A/whatever win, or you losing. I left - things are a lot better (and we are not fully in R but we are working on our friendship and he is working on himself being a better person for himself). What you are doing now will likely not end well. You need a break. Ask him to leave, temporarily. You need space. It will hurt in the short term, but it will help in the long term.

My WH TT me to death. I ended up with a case of PTSD, not from the A, but from his constant lies. Took me YEARS to move out of infidelity, I also became a person I didn't recognize. I had to dig and pull and push just to get some semblance of truth out of him.

I stayed because of my three children. I came from a broken home and I didn't want that for my children.

My WH did everything right, dumped OW, found another job, was completely transparent,..... except he tried to protect himself instead of having empathy for what he did to me by just telling me the truth.

It's so true, the TT kills the marriage, it pretty much destroyed mine, and even though we are still together, it's more of a partnership than a real marriage.

I'm so sorry he is putting you through this hell.

he's punched walls, he's smashed our crockery, he's thrown his phone at our family photo frame and broken it - all in anger at being accused of such and such (but yet, he was still lying).

^^^His violence is very concerning. It might escalate, so IMO you might want to consider a separation until/if he can get his act together.

I agree with the suggestion for space. I think you need a reprieve from this turmoil. Are you seeing a therapist??

I will also say I was insanely unhinged during the 13 months post D day when I was trying to stay in the marriage. It was crazy making shit. My ex was not only tt’ing me, he was also still in touch with the AP which, of course, he continued to lie about. I think in no small part my own turmoil was rooted in the unconscious knowledge that I knew he was still lying. Maybe yours is too?

If your WS is still lying about little (and big) information, you can’t continue to live under the same roof. You say he’s empathetic about the A, but is he really?? How can he be if he’s still lying all the time.

This is no way to live.

Hey WhiskeyBlues,

My heart breaks for you as you are being TT'd to death it seems. As a madhatter, I think the one thing that helped us in our R was that we both knew how bad the TT is and we were able to get it all out there and deal with it in one lump sum if you will. Sure, it was a lot to process, but at least with a total brain dump on the whole thing, you were able to understand this is what the As were and how they can be neatly wrapped up in a bow and dealt with so to speak.

It appears that your WH didn't seem to get the memo. He was awful to you by having the affair and he is awful to you now by not sharing the details about his affair that you are asking for in order to consider staying with him. He is operating out of total fear and CYA mode, which is not indicative of a wayward who actually gets it. I guess it all depends on what he is omitting/lying about, but it could be really important to you and whatever details are important to you are going to be important that he shares as much as he can. I've found that as I've worked through this now for a few years that our memories are a funny thing at times, we sometimes recall the strangest details years after the fact because something triggers the memory. For example, this isn't an A related memory, but one of my team and I were talking about their upcoming travel for work and we were discussing meals and suddenly I was taken back to the fanciest of fancy meals that I ate on the road 5 years ago now. Suddenly I was taken back to that restaurant, the sights, sounds, smells, tastes of that meal that happened 5 years ago. It is crazy that as I was describing the Wagyu steak I had for dinner that night I could almost taste it but lunch that I ate earlier today was so unforgettable that I didn't commit it to memory and just now I had really think hard about what I ate (a friendly belch while typing helped remind me ).

All that to say that there may be some things out there that your husband genuinely doesn't remember but those things are likely few and far between. I think the larger issue is clearly that he wants to rug sweep everything rather than actually fix and address his own shit. A truly repentant and empathetic wayward would be an open book, willing and ready to answer every question you have and if he can't truly remember something, try to piece together what he can from receipts, credit card statements, location data in pictures on his phone, call and text records or any other available information. As we always advise waywards, they should be willing to crawl over broken glass to make it right with their betrayed spouse and in the case of your husband, he just doesn't have it in him it seems.

He has gone to great lengths to manipulate me previously, even though he knows he's lying. He has seen me distraught the to point I have hit my head on things, dug knives into my palms, he's goaded me to message AP to "prove" he's telling the truth (he was lying - how utterly humiliating that would've been, eh?), he's punched walls, he's smashed our crockery, he's thrown his phone at our family photo frame and broken it - all in anger at being accused of such and such (but yet, he was still lying).

My, the extent he’ll go to in his deflections. It’s gaslighting. Not to mention escalating violence.

Such a focus on him and his truth. What’s yours now? Your truth? You are in control of reversing this process of becoming someone you don’t like. It’s about focusing on oneself and and working becoming a person you like. What does that look like? Can you detach and look at this situation as if you were watching a film. What do you see?

You have zero reason to trust him.

He’s lied and lied. And then manipulated you to great lengths.

And then cheats and lies again.

I don’t think in 2 months you are going to get what you need. I don’t think your H has the ability to recognize the truth if it bit him. 😡

He appears to have some serious issues that causes him to lie. Even knowing you will find out or it’s obvious he’s lying, his go to behavior is to lie.

I think you have to stop and ask yourself if this marriage is worth it. If you continue to try to R without your H getting serious help for his lying addiction, I think you will be locked in a warp and the cycle will continue over and over again.

I think you may want to consider counseling for yourself on how to accept your H’s lying addiction and learn to deal with it.

And then I think you need to make a decision on whether you want to continue to be married to someone who lies about too many things.

.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 11:26 PM, Monday, September 22nd]

Whiskey,

I want to propose something that I haven’t seen suggest yet. A lot of what you wrote, especially about how much you hate what you’ve become post A has really struck a chord with me.

The truth may just be it’s a dealbreaker for you and no matter what happens you will never be able to be in a romantic relationship with your WH again. It happens, a lot, and many people agonize for years in R only to wake up and realize that they just can’t. Affairs, regardless of length of time can ruin the relationship forever.

There is a user here called waitedtolong, just read his story on his profile. No matter what his wife did to try and fix it, he couldn’t get past it.

I too am working on this problem. I understand completely the repulsion feeling, of not trusting anything especially after being manipulated so much. Think of this, you are basically trying to make a life with someone who has caused you the most emotional pain you likely have ever experienced. A lot of people can’t ever get past it, to a level where they can actually have a relationship again with that person. It’s not because you failed, it’s because of the betrayal.

This is why i really recommend a separation, for you. You need time to get yourself together without the toxic feelings that WH brings you. I took a small separation and went LC with my WW, because I was physically sick around her, and couldn’t even stand to be next to her in bed. It helped me get myself back together, and I was able to make a decision if i really could attempt R with her not if I wanted it or not. It also made her see what her reality would be if we went D, and she has really thrown herself back into R. Things are better for us now.

.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 11:26 PM, Monday, September 22nd]

I do have kids, 5, all young. I feel bad about this, but I was able to use my job as a cover for my separation. I am fully prepared to tell them the truth if we ever go to D, but I felt as we may still work out our marriage I wanted to protect them.

Here’s the truth though. My WW and I were fighting all the time, something they have never experienced before, and they all knew something was really wrong. My oldest absolutely knew something had happened, and I suspect more is known than let on. AP was around a lot when the A was going on, (I was out of country for work) and now he isn’t ever mentioned. The way I was treating my WW was making everyone’s lives miserable. I don’t know, it’s complicated. Our family life was hell, toxic, and tense. I came to a decision that I had to do something for my kids, they were innocent and didn’t deserve what was happening.

I don’t regret the separation at all, if for nothing else it gave my kids peace, and things are better now.

Forgiveness doesn’t equal relationship.

You have to make the best decision for yourself. I needed time away from her because I couldn’t stand the sight of her. Love isn’t enough. You say you love WH still, I ask again, do you? Or is it the image you thought had not him?

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 12:37 AM, Thursday, August 10th]

We both do need a break. It's just so hard with the kids. They will be broken and I can't seem to bring myself to do that to them, if it's only temporary for a break.

So sorry you're going through all of this. I'm just a year older than you, and it sounds like our kids are maybe about the same age. I separated from my WH and I just wanted to share how I got to that point, in case it's helpful for you.

I didn't like the person this had made me, much like you've described. As much as I didn't want to break apart my family, I realized I couldn't be a good mom to my kids like this. And of course, I am not the one who broke apart the family, my WH is. But still, I knew it was going to be my choice to separate.

It was heartbreaking to have to tell my kids. But having space away from him was so helpful. And my kids have been ok. I wouldn't have put them through this unless it was absolutely necessary. My WH also TT'd me to death, and I just couldn't relax or even begin to heal or feel any peace with him around.

And my WH also didn't have anywhere to go, but I just couldn't concern myself with it anymore. He made his bed, and he had to lay in it. I of course still care about him because he's my kids' dad, like you said, but I had to put myself first so I could begin to heal. I think that's so important. We can't be a good parent in the affair-aftermath state; you must have space to recover.

WhiskeyBlues I am sorry you are here. But for your situation, this is the best place to be.

But my gut is telling me, still, he is hiding some things. My gut has been surprisingly (scarily) accurate. But equally I recognise, I am fallible. I am vulnerable, I am on high alert. There is of course the possibility I am wrong, and he is being truthful in saying that everything he has hidden has been divulged (via TT). I describe this to him as using up all of his possible "trust points" on TT, so there is nothing left for us to build on unfortunately.

I feel I am willing to end our marriage at this point on just a hunch and a (scarily accurate) gut feeling. Because who else can I trust?

This is the thing that I struggled with the most. I KNEW that I knew ALOT about WW's A but my gut was telling me there was more. I was scared that because of my pain and hypervigilance that I was seeing ghosts (things that were not there).

I can't seem to articulate how much I am struggling, and how much this man has messed with my head 😪

When you are traumatized, it is impossible to completely trust yourself. That is the real damage of TT.

My pain and anguish led me to go back and forth with my gut feelings. My gut was mostly accurate, but there were some misses.

This led me to more torturous thoughts, plus self-doubt and the cycle continued. I would question something, she would answer and I felt she was lying. Why? Because she had previously lied sooooo much.

THEN BOOM!!! I got free.

How?

I came to the realization that IT DIDN'T MATTER if she was still lying.

I had ALREADY had enough information to divorce her.

I WOULDNT be "ending our marriage on a hunch" as you put it.

I would be ending our marriage because SHE CHEATED. This lightened the pressure on me tremendously....it wasn't MY job to maintain the marriage...it was ALREADY gone.

I didnt have to figure out if she was lying, I had to figure out if I was willing to go forward with the person in front of me.

I was in control of ME.

I had went to see a lawyer 2 days after DDAY. I was on the verge of filing then and I held back. Later after I reached the point of feeling free, I had a separation agreement drawn up, and the beginning of divorce papers.

I know that in my heart, without a shadow of a doubt, that if I find any more lies about her A, I walk out the door and file. You know what the beauty of it is? She knows too.

WB I think you need to focus on yourself and your own healing.

You need to prepare for D. Not because you "want" to end your marriage but because you need to wrap your mind around the idea that THERE IS a point where YOU decide that your WS is not a safe candidate for R.

If your WH is R worthy, he will TAKE THE ACTIONS TO CONVINCE YOU TO CHANGE YOUR MIND.

YOU are in emotional turmoil (as I was) in trying to "figure out" how to save the M.

YOU have to instead get to the point where you "protect yourself FIRST". YOU have to no longer be a victim of his faults but in control of your own safety and healing.

[This message edited by TrayDee at 6:21 AM, Thursday, August 10th]