SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all, I'm new here but was directed here by someone I trust. I'm not sure what I am looking for here, advice maybe? Here is the situation:

My wife (45) and I (51) have been together for 13 years and married for 11. It is the 2nd marriage for both of us. We both learned a lot of lessons from our first failed marriages, and have always been very intentional about our connection and communication. For most of our marriage I thought things were great.

Flash forward to the pandemic, and my wife happens to land her dream job leading an important function at a small company. The company being small and focused on research and collaboration, they were quicker to resume in-person than my company, a large multi-national conglomerate. My wife was flourishing, in her dream job as I mentioned, working with colleagues she truly loved working with, and it is definitely a work-hard, play-hard company so there were a lot of dinners, social events, etc. Meanwhile I was still working from home with very little in-person contact with anyone other than her and our kids. Little did I know at the time but I was falling into a fairly deep depression.

As a result of this I became distant and unavailable to her (of course I did not realize this at the time). Feeling alone and helpless she confided in a co-worker she had become close with. Over time this developed into your classic emotional affair, which I discovered by checking her phone and seeing her text string with him. It wasn't romantic or sexual but it was highly emotionally intimate, and IMO way over the line. She disagreed at first, but ultimately agreed that things had gotten out of hand.

So, we get into therapy and start working on things, problem is this dream job thing. She agrees to dial it back with this guy, but she is unwilling to leave the job, telling me that if she leaves this job for me/us it'll breed a ton of resentment, which I actually get. But over the course of the next few months it is like a roller coaster, some days I can handle the fact that he's still in her life, other days not so much.

Things all came to a head about a week ago, we were hanging out making dinner one night, and all of a sudden she says she's polyamorous (she had hinted at this, so not a total shock) and that she is in love with this guy, and he's in love with her. But, whatever feelings she has for him doesn't compare to how she feels for me, she doesn't want to leave me, and she wants our relationship to continue, she just also wants to be able to "invest in" this other relationship. By "invest in" she means spend time with this guy, dinners, drinks, etc., but she claims neither of them want things to get physical or romantic, they just have a connection that she can't ignore.

So, here I am not knowing what to do. I love her with all of my heart, and I wish I could give her what she is asking for. I've read a lot about emotional affairs and it seems like the consensus is the only way to fully recover from them is for contact with the emotional affair partner to cease. Not only is that not happening, she's asking to double down on it. I vacillate from feeling like I can learn to live with this and she'll be happier and more engaged in our relationship if I can find a way to give her what she wants, and feeling despair over the whole thing, and thinking I am nuts for entertaining it, and that if she "invests" in this other relationship the bond will only become stronger between them.

Sorry for the long first post. I'm looking for . . advice I think? I don't want our relationship to fail and neither does she, but maybe we just aren't compatible anymore. All I know is it sucks to hear the love of your life tell you she is in love with someone else too.

I am so sorry for you. I cannot imagine the intense pain you must be feeling.

Sooooo……your wife is asking permission to cheat on you. In front of you.

Obviously you have 2 options. You can say yes to this new arrangement and be miserable watching your wife cheat on you.

And IMO it’s cheating b/c she’s changing the rules if your marriage after the fact. Now if at any point prior to your marriage she let you know she’s polyamorous, then in all fairness she disclosed the truth about her viewpoint in monogamy and relationships. If she never mentioned her sexuality, then this is cheating. Again just my opinion.

Getting back to you, you can give in to this arrangement. But your wife needs to understand that you now have the same rights— to be open in your marriage. And she has to stand by and watch you engage with other women.

Do I think it’s a recipe for disaster? Absolutely!!!

Now you don’t actually have to have a relationship w/ other women. But you can join activities or do things w/out the spouse. It’s not cheating but you are not obligated to tell her that.

That’s an option if you decide to remain married.

If this new arrangement doesn’t work then you either separate or divorce (S or D).

I can tell you based on experience that my H tried this during his last affair in some way. He was putting me in limbo on whether he wanted to remain married for 2 months until he "decided". Foolishly I went along.

You are in the sane position as I was. You are "auditioning" to remain her H in some way just as I was auditioning to remain his wife. Being compared. Trying to be witty and entertaining and dynamic while competing w/ the Affair Partner (AP).

I can only tell you that my H finally came around when I told him (after 6 months of his affair and false reconciliation, marriage in limbo and dday2) that I was D him!

I didn’t do it as a ploy — I meant it. I had a plan B/exit strategy just in case. And dday2 I went into execution mode. He spent one year trying to convince me to R. Luckily for him he turned it around for us. But I no longer tolerate any crap and he knows it.

I hope this helps you. I had an amazing therapist that helped me deal with this crap (his 2nd affair btw) and I definitely survived it.

Free advice — it’s not what your spouse wants — it’s about what is best for you. And if you don’t see yourself being the spouse who wants to watch the rules of marriage change b/c your spouse wants to cheat, then don’t accept it.

Tell the cheater you would rather D. But if you say it, you have to mean it. And be prepared to follow through.

Sorry this is long. I hope it helps you.

Wow I'm so sorry. She wants you to legitimize her affair and makes it sound like an ultimatum. She does it while you are in a very vulnerable state (depression from isolation). These are 3 giant red flags. Do you think these are signs of 'special love' for you?

And don't let her blame you for resentment for having to leave her 'friend' and job. You didn't make her cross boundaries. 4th flag.

While mono relationships have a hard time surviving a lets say 5y span, for poly it's very unlikely. Do you want your relationship to dwindle in slow agony? The special friend already took a lot from you, how do you feel about standing passively in the side lines and watching him take it all?

To get more clarity, you may want to consider asking some real poly people what they think of this arragement (unfortunately I cannot recommend anything). Most importantly ask your wife what will happen if you decline all of this and what would happen if the situation was reversed?

And an honest question for you. After spending quality time with dinner and drinks, will she want to spend the night with the desperate husband with no self respect that waits at home and sucks everything up anyway?

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 12:33 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Welcome here brother...

I have a question for you to think about.

Realising that i) your WW's time and energy are a finite resource, and that ii) she can thus only direct so much of that into her relationships, how does it make you feel that she wants a relationship outside of the marriage? One where you get to sit at home, work hard at your job so she can buy things for the other man, and pay the bills and do the dishes while she is out having a good time?

I'm pretty sure I know your answer, but you need to think about that and say it out loud.

I'm sorry that you find yourself here. Please understand that you WW's choices and behaviour have nothing to do with you, your marriage, or even the other man. She's trying to fill an emptiness within herself and she's the only person that can try to understand her issues that lead her to such unhealthy and destructive choices, and she's the only one who can "fix" what's missing within her so that she can devote herself to her relationships with integrity.

I hate to say this, but I think she's playing you for time, stringing you along so that she can play the field and have a backup plan. I think you deserve better than this, don't you?

I think it's in your best interest to consult a lawyer to discuss what your options are. It doesn't mean you need to divorce her (that's your choice), just that you're educating yourself so that you can be fully aware of what your choices are. It's also important to monitor your health - diet, exercise, and sleep are critical in your recovery.

I perfectly understand your desire to save your marriage, but frankly, there is no magic bullet here. All that you can do is focus on the choices you can make in light of the situation. If a poly-marriage isn't in the cards for you, then you need to stand up for your value system and advocate for your needs.

Again, it doesn't mean that you will divorce or that you don't accept marriage - it means you don't accept a marriage in which your wife gets to screw around with whoever she wants. She can either get her shit together or she can continue to look for a good time - that's up to her. She is free to make her own choices, and so are you. But you commit to respecting yourself and your needs, to your emotional wellbeing, to relationships that you find enriching, and to moving forward with your life on the path that you choose. If you can do that, I can promise you one thing and one thing only.

You're gonna be okay.

Some links for further reading:
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/tactical-primer/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-boundaries/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

I have a problem with ethical non monogamy where the ethical is silent.

The few ENM relationships that work require trust, enthusiastic participation from everyone involved and the ability to observe a lot of rules and boundaries. Your wayward wife has already demonstrated that she is not trustworthy and has little regard for rules and boundaries, and you are definitely not enthusiastic.

She is lying about this not becoming romantic and physical. That’s what happens when adults date.

Does the affair partner have a wife or significant other? If so how does she feel about this proposal? Verify both of these items independently of your WW. She is not a reliable source for this information, and neither is her AP.

Read the advice of the others who have posted carefully.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 12:38 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Just my two cents: At least in my experience, the concept of "ethical non-monogamy" is a convenient concept that those that have already cheated comfortably identify with and then embrace. It's a get out of jail free card. It gives them an excuse for their earliest transgressions as 'exploration' or 'curiosity' and paves the way for them to escalate. During escalation, they tell themselves 'monogamy is a societal constraint' that is denying them their true nature. When they begin to feel REALLY guilty, it gives them a very easy way to explain infidelity away as they 'discover their true self' - which you, of course, are denying them the ability to be. Then, they bring it into the open as a 'sudden revelation about themselves' that they need to 'explore and understand'.

I love her with all of my heart, and I wish I could give her what she is asking for.

This is EXACTLY what she's hoping for. Now that you're on the hook, she can use your indecision as permission ("I thought you were on board") or as re-enforcement that her AP is part of her destiny ("I love you so much, why are you controlling me?")

Either way, she's manipulating you into giving her permission to transfer her guilt to YOU. Like this:

...if she leaves this job for me/us it'll breed a ton of resentment, which I actually get.

You actually DON'T get it, but she's happy you TINK you do. Problem is that this really means; "If I have to give up my lover for you, I will resent it."

No doubt in my mind that her affair is already much more than she's letting on. She's been in a romantic and sexual relationship with him since BEFORE the moment you found out. Adults that are dating have sex... usually after a few dates. She's been dating him since the day you first heard his name. They're having sex. They've BEEN having sex.

she claims neither of them want things to get physical or romantic, they just have a connection that she can't ignore.

Another classic statement by WSs already in a full-blown sexual affair. This just softens you up and gives them time to continue the affair. Now, if you were to walk in on them in the act 15 minutes from now it would be "It just... happened... it's the first time this has ever happened.. we tried SOOO hard not to let it happen."

You're worrying if your love will survive, she's lying to your face while strategically using your love for her and your fear of losing her to manipulating you in the sickest of ways. Get STD tested, do the 180 and drop the hammer.

[This message edited by suddenlyisee at 1:40 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Hey MCEC, first so sorry you're here. You're in a bind for sure now. This isn't a good situation for a monogamous relationship to be in. Marriage is a union between 2 people that CHOOSE to be together and WANT to share their lives together in all ways.

I'm 63 now and been married, happily I'll say now for 39 years to the same lady. Only marriage for either of us. It has lasted this long for 2 reasons sir:

1. We love each other deeply.

2 when we married, a choice, we committed to each other.

There's nothing polyamorous about this situation. The marriage seemed fine, covid happens, she finds a dream job, able to continue to work outside of the home. Yours goes into remote. You slowly enter into depression. Your mate fails to show real concern in her partner and CHOOSES to explore outside the marriage. Now she presents to you that shes all about polyamorous lifestyle, that she's in love with you both?

I'm sorry. A person doesn't suddenly wake up to this. This isn't true polyamorous feelings. You are being left behind for something more fun in her eyes, you're just a worn out pair of shoes now. Anytime a partner allows anything to come between them as this, its wrong. Cheating is cheating, no matter how its painted.

There has been a new phenomenon happening in marriages now for about the last 15 to 20 years I've noted. As more and more women enter the work force legitimately, more and more marriages are being destroyed. Not just because of no fault divorce, but because they are exposed up close to more and more potential male partners up close and personal, that normally they wouldn't. This can and does cause confusion. Whether man or woman, when exposed to another person at such close range for 8, 10, or 12 hours a day, feelings can and do develop. These feeling can be mutual for both or exploited by one of them to their advantage. In the end these things are destroying marriages at an alarming rate.

Being in your state of depression, knowing how much you love her, she is taking advantage of the situation and sadly leveraging you to accept her cheating on you and you sit at home being a good cuckold, till she comes back. Eventually she won't come back. It may have gone to far already. Sitting in the passivity of depression, its tough to act. You are now her plan b. She has your familiar self at home just pining away for the crap part of her now, while the OM gets the best part of her! Yes, it hurts to hear all this, buts its truth. Unless you enjoy the thought of OM having her heart, then its time to take back control of this.

Choices have consequences. I advise you seek a lawyer, or solicitor, depending on your country and see what your options are. Have the needed paper work drafted up. Sit with her and explain exactly how you feel. No interruption from her. Explain that there are several options now. That since she has chosen to look outside the marriage she can,

1. Immediately the end the relationship, block on all platforms, change jobs and attend individual therapy and couples counseling to repair the damage.

2. Sign on the signature blocks and end this carcass of a marriage. That you will not tolerate being a backup to anyone, period. You don't share your wife physically or emotionally.

Its painful and one of the toughest things to do. Coping with an affair by our partners. None of us think our partner would ever do this, but it happens. Yet we must do what's right by our hearts for us as an individual and a couple. Its never easy when we love someone deeply. You can choose to passively sit by and continue to be hurt deeper and deeper, or have the self-respect and dignity to stand up and take control of your life.

Again, im so sorry you find yourself here. No one wants to be here. Listen to what many will say.

[This message edited by Dagrump at 1:58 PM, Monday, October 16th]

If it is not suitable for you, do not waste time on your wife manipulating you. While you are waiting in limbo, she will continue to have a relationship with the other man with your approval, which will cause you to experience greater trauma.

please do what's right for you,

There is no need to think about your wife's situation.

Hi MCEC:

Sorry you find yourself here. You will receive good support. Read in the healing library. You have received good advice already. I will keep this short.

Accept no blame for your WW's decision to cheat. Your depression and distance did not cause her to cheat. You don't control her actions.

Always value yourself. If you value a monogamous M, do not accept less. Tell her she is free to pursue other men, but not as your wife. It will be her AP's turn to feel the pain when she tells him she wants to pursue other men for sex. After all she will continue to be polyamorous in all future relationships. Good luck.

I had to come back and add to my earlier post. I came across as a little crass - but your situation and the ENM component really hit a nerve.

My WW and I had this very same conversation about 'ethical-nonmonogamy' on DDay number one. It wasn't even close to reality. Her EA was cross-country, so it hadn't gotten physical, but they had plans to travel together and it would surely have been physical within 24 hours of her flight landing. Otherwise it was no different than the scenario you're in.
She ended her EA before it got physical, but we spent over two years on the ENM concept, arguing about it the whole time. We even had a hack of an MC suggest it and perpetuate it. During this time there were probably a half dozen 'friendships that crossed the line'; all of them basically dating, kissing, suggestive texts - and at least three of them sexual activity. All of it enabled by the 'maybe humans aren't meant to be monogamous' cloud. NONE of it had anything to do with me - but I spent YEARS in the hot-seat as the 'bad guy'. At various points I was 'inattentive' or 'not her type' or 'too familiar' or the 'substance, but not the spice' - and when I objected, I know I came across as 'insecure and needy'. All of that was enabled and reinforced by the ENM BS. I'm telling you; we had TWO MORE DDays during that time and the myth of ENM emboldened her to be 'done talking about it' in about a week and even fooled me into rug-sweeping in under a couple months because 'this is sooo hard for her' and 'at least she's trying' and besides 'she respected me enough to keep me in the loop'.

I thought we were GOOD, and had become a really progressive and connected couple. I think she did, too. But her behavior just went deep underground - because ENM is convenient. It doesn't have a hint of "you're a piece of crap if you're lying - because it's predicated on permission and privacy. I have my primary partner and we have a different kind of love and the outside stuff doesn't mean anything - so it really doesn't matter, so I don't need to tell my partner about it, because I'm entitled to my privacy. . The series of EAs and PAs she cultivated over those years between those DDays all felt justified to her under the guise of 'liberty', 'getting to know herself', and 'personal growth'. When she felt like shit - she deflected the blame to me - or the AP that used her in some way. Eventually, I think, she was just LOOKING for someone to prove her wrong - and that kind of bait just sinks into the ooze and draws in all kinds of bottom feeders. THAT just makes it more of a challenge and a journey for the right side relationship.
Her delusion ended with a sudden realization of how horribly compromised she had become. She had commented to an AP that an associate of theirs was kind of a lowlife for cheating on his unsuspecting wife. He laughed at her and asked how she was any different. At rock-bottom, she sought an IC specializing in sex addiction on her own, unknown to me. After months in IC, she finally spilled everything to me with the expectation that our marriage was over - but that we would at least be on the same page. Her path to this last DDay was the ONLY reason I was optimistic enough to start the MC we are currently in.
Her IC is helping her understand how she uses her sexually charged attention seeking as a way to cope with FOO issues, past abuse and the like. That's allowing her to finally able to assess those PAs for what they were and to self-correct the various behaviors she employed to send the signals and open the doors that lured these guys in.

She's got a long road ahead of her and we have a landfill of shit to sort through - and I'm sure I probably don't know everything yet. But my point is: we're actually having the SAME conversation about the SAME things and the SAME time - for the first time in 10 years.

ENM is bullshit. Don't fall for it.

Venting: We had the ENM conversation in the late '60s or early '70s. We agreed that we couldn't see it working short, medium, or long term for us at all. Then, 4 decades later. My W let ow convince her she had evolved to a level at which she could love 2 people simultaneously. I hadn't evolved to that level, so it was best to keep me in the dark over my W's Stranger in a Strange Land growth.

W was going to split her time. As far as I can make out, we were both going to get W 12 hours a day on average. That meant 12 waking hours with ow, the rest for me. IDK what was going to be done about travel hours. End vent. (W eventually saw she had sold herself out and decided to end the A>)

Your W has put you into a very difficult position. Alas, it's up to you to get yourself out of it. You have to choose between accepting your W's decision to open your M or D.

Here's the thing that stands out to me:

If you accept what you don't want, you doom yourself to living every day in pain, and you doom yourself to letting your W choose D whenever she wants to.

If you choose D, you separate yourself from the source of your pain, and that opens up healing as an option.

IOW, you give yourself an opportunity to lead a good life if you force your W to choose between you and om. You make a good life much less possible for you - and for your W, too, probably - if you give in to your W's ultimatum.

And don't forget: if you issue your own ultimatum, your W may wake up and choose you.

Your choice really isn't lose-lose for you. You've lost your W already. An ultimatum - if you're ready to dump your W if she chooses om - at least offers you a chance to win a good life, with or without your W. But if you force her to choose, and she chooses om, you need to D.

*****

My spidey sense was energized by the phrase 'failed M'. I don't know what happened in your first M, but if this one ends in D soon, it's because your W failed. You didn't fail. Your M didn't fail. Your W failed.

*****

I think I comprehend some of the pain you're experiencing. I don't know if your W is having sex with this guy now, but what she says is tantamount to cheating.

There's no way around this, though: you often have to risking ending the M to save it.

*****

It is sometimes possible to end an A with a co-worker without quitting the job, if contact can be limited to true professional obligations. I don't think that's possible if the aps work together closely. In my experience, good project work has an intimacy that can destroy boundaries. Remember: in some ways the creativity needed to reach project goals is at least almost sexual.

Your W may have to choose between you and her job - but if she chooses her job, what good is she for you? She needs to choose you without reservation. If she doesn't do that, IMO she's a poor bet for the long term.

Why would you want to stay with someone who doesn't put staying with you above going with any other person? How does that help you make a good life?

*****

And if this pargon of a co-worker is in a committed relationship, I hope you find whatever it takes to inform OBS of the guy's commitment to your W.

Forced to choose, he may end the A. That might give your W the separation she needs to change herself from cheater to good partner. No matter what, though, your best bet is to end your relationship unless your W commits to changing from cheater to good partner.

*****

Again, I know the pain is excruciating. The problem is that the pain starts to end only if you do what you need to do to end it. Healing isn't quick by any means, but healing is eminently doable.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:40 PM, Monday, October 16th]

MCEC,

Many others have posted I hope it brings you clarity and strength.

I'll say that one form of absolute hell on earth is to know that your wife is in an affair and to be sitting at home alone while they are together. It will be a level worse if this perfect working environment your WW believes in supports or encourages this affair. It only happened to me once but I felt like I was being roasted alive on a grill.

Who is the OM if a boss or owner you can press a lawsuit or contact HR.

Expose the OM widely does he have a wife, kids, parents, SO, I suspect you will find that if the OM has a wife she has given up on trying to get fidelity out of this joker and your WW is just his latest target.

The polyamorous thing is just a cynical pickup scheme this OM uses over and over again.